1.1.01.01.016: The Ishihara test is final and cannot be reviewed, nor retaken

[needshumility]

If the only way you could have total freedom within a society is to be literally invisible to that society, would you consider it worth it? If it took to technically not exist to be able to live by your own rules, would you want that?

Or would it be too lonely? Is there any point in that freedom when you can't share it with anyone, and you're left as an observer to a society where nobody else had any freedom at all?

[Wardens-Eddie-likes filter (doctors, Howie and other officious types excluded. George is in, though)]

There's... some concepts I'm not entirely sure of the meaning of, and after talking to my inmate, I think it's quite important to understand them.

God, and the afterlife.

I've talked to a few people, and no offence, they seem to have done their best to explain it, but it seems a little fuzzy still.

Is god a physical person? If so, why is he a god above everyone else? If not, why do people call themselves goddesses here? What's the difference between people who say there's one god, and those who say there's lots, responsible for different things? Which one's right?

Are both right? Are none right?

Is the afterlife just... something the Previous think happens after death, or is it something specific? Why would someone say this place wasn't the afterlife... when it's clearly, um, after life? For the dead people, anyway.

[Private, seperately, to Sveta and Martha - video]

[Eddie comes on screen.] Hi. I found something and... I thought you might be able to tell me what it was about.

[He holds up a copy of a Ishihara test]

We found this in the library, and me and Jane can see different things in it. Why might that be? What's the purpose of this?

[Kitchen filter]

Could you spare me a piece of meat, by any chance? You probably won't get it back.

[Lab staff-folks]

My inmate wants to do an experiment, and if I'm supervising and he wants to come in to do something, is that alright? He's not doing anything dangerous, and I'll make sure nothing's taken.

[Private to Victor.]

I've asked for some meat, for that experiment you wanted to do. You can have the day off from work to do it, so pick whenever suits you.

Comments

Private

[ourlastbesthope.livejournal.com]

I can't help you with the god question. I know some people believe in that concept so much that they're willing to do very big, sometimes very stupid things. So be cautious about who you ask.

As for the lab, I don't see a problem with it. Just keep an eye on him.

Re: Private

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

Who should I avoid asking? And... maybe they'd tell me what it meant, even if they are prepared to do something stupid.

I will. I'm not sure we'll need it, but I thought I best check in case. Thanks.

Private

[greatlightother.livejournal.com]

It's a test for color blindness. Different kinds. And you two can see different things because you have different vision, right? I mean...you can see different colors. [Wait.]

I really don't know exactly how your vision works, so I really can't say why.

Re: Private

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

I see. Is that a commonly known thing, or medical-knowledge-only?

By the way, we can generally only see particular colours, and everything else is a shade of grey. For example, I have 86% perception of Red - I can only see Red, and the Red content of other colours like purple and orange. The... brighter the colour, and the brighter the light, the easier it is to see. I can see someone blush in a normally lit room. That's about my limit.

Jane has 12% Blue and 14% Yellow, which means she can see Green, but only just. Shades would have to be particularly bright for her to see.

National Colour produces Univisual colour and medicinal hue, which everyone can see. The former are used in colour gardens for public enjoyment, and sometimes are bought as dyes and food colouring. The latter are what I have in my swatch and can induce physical reactions within someone - some colours are painkillers, for example.

That's the best explanation of how it works I can give.

[Exclusive Warden Filter] oh god excuse the tl;dr

[knowsthepeople]

I think most people've - at least, where I'm from - agreed that God's incorporeal. He's considered to be "above" everything else because, according to most religions who believe in Him, he created the universe and kinda keeps an eye on it.

The people who call themselves gods and goddesses here are from different faiths then the one that talks about there being only one God, and I guess either come from another universe where they are goddesses who exist with bodies like ours, or they've just been hidin' really well fah the last couple thousand years. Persephone's a Greek goddess, Loki's Norse and Coyo's Aztec. Most early religions, like the ones they're from, had more then one god, but by the time a lot of us ah from back home, a lot of people follow religions that only talk about one god, and since a lot of us ah from more Western cultures, the standard here seems to be a little skewed towahds monotheistic religions.

I think what you believe about whether there's one god or a thousand kinda kinda varies based on where you're from. If we got someone from Coyo's world, they'd probably think the rest of us are crazy fah not worshiping her and her family, but someone from my universe'd think it's ridiculous they even exist, since people stopped worshipin' them thousands of years ago.

The afterlife kinda varies based on what faith you practice, too. I was raised Catholic, so I was taught to believe there's a heaven and a hell, and purgatory for people who aren't ready to go to either. There's no real definition of what any of 'em are supposed to actually be like, since no one's ever come back to tell us about what it's like, but Hell's supposed to be fiery and basically a place to be tortured for the misdeeds you committed in life, and Heaven's supposed to be a reward fah being a good person while you were on Earth.

I think people think this isn't really the afterlife because it's not really either Heaven or Hell, and not all of us died to get here. I guess if I had to compare it to somethin', I'd say Purgatory, but it's not really that either. There's no second chances at life in the afterlife I was raised to believe in, but people get to leave the Barge and go back to their lives after they've graduated, and there ah definitely people who by definition, maybe shoulda ended up in Hell, if this really was the afterlife.

But that's just me. I'm pretty sure everyone could tell you somethin' different based on what they were brought up to believe in and whatever.

Re: [Exclusive Warden Filter] s'all good. meta-howie's response was twice as long in my head.

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

Right...

So if everyone might think something different, what's the right answer? Surely people can't have this much stock in something they're guessing at, can they?

[apologies for the short in response to your tl;dr]

[Eddie-friendly Warden Filter] Bertie is not a theologian.

[what_ho_jeeves]

Well, God is the Father of humanity. And the Father of Jesus, who is also God. God from God, Light from Light, True God from true God, begotten, not made.

There is only one God, and he is the Alpha and the Omega. But he comes in three parts. The Father--that's God. The Son--that's Jesus. And the Holy Spirit--that's...I'm not sure what the Holy Spirit is, really. But I think it's the bit of God that people eat during communion and then lives inside them like the tenant of a flat. As the Good Book says, "know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

But there is quite definitely only one God, and those who say they are gods and goddesses are mistaken.

[Eddie-friendly Warden Filter] This could go nothing but horribly wrong.

[19centconstable.livejournal.com]

Oh no: the Eucharist is God's body. The Holy Spirit is a Paraclete.

Re: [Eddie-friendly Warden Filter] somewhere, sunday school teacher howie is shaking his head.

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

So... is that the right answer, or is that just what that guy up there said about everyone having a different answer?

Private

[thebestnose.livejournal.com]

To live for loganberry jam. To hide in an attic. To run away to a quarantined village.

If that's the only way to get freedom, then yes. Loneliness aside, it's better.

But I'm sure you already knew that.

Re: Private

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

Well... yes.

But I was wondering, Jane, is it? To be so isolated, to not be part of any society at all? To just stand by and watch all those things happen to everyone around you and not even being able to say a word to them? Not being able to really change anything, except for a few answers given where they normally wouldn't?

I can join National Colour. Well, I can try. I can pull things apart from the inside. all the Apocryphal Man can do is watch. He's free, but he doesn't have anything else.

[Wardens-Eddie-likes filter!] I'm so sorry.

[19centconstable.livejournal.com]

Oh, God isn't a person: He's God. That's why he sent us down Jesus, his son, to give us church. Jesus was a person, but then he died for our sins, and now he's God as well. And he's going to come back some day, but nobody knows when.

The difference between people who say there's one god, and those who say there's lots is that those who say there's lots are wrong, but we oughtn't to hold it against them, because they're only ignorant and that can be cured.

The afterlife is, that after you've died, if you've lived a good and Christian life, you go to heaven. Which is a place nobody's ever seen, but we reckon it's made of clouds, and everybody there wears long white robes because clouds are where weather comes from, so if you're above them, there isn't any, so there's no need to worry about catching a chill. And also because you're already dead. So it isn't really life, exactly.

But if you haven't lived a good life, you go to Hell and burn in eternal fire, while demons torture you, and everything is just generally unpleasant.

Re: [Wardens-Eddie-likes filter!]it's all good. Howie does this a lot. it's payback to my inbox.

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

...So if you live by his Rules, you get a good afterlife, and if you don't, you don't?

Have I got that right?

What do you think this place is, then?

At least Munsell's Rules can only punish you in this life

Private

[takeyouapart.livejournal.com]

[PING.]

I...

I've had that choice, in a way. I've had to make that choice.

Re: Private

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

Oh. I mentioned it because I knew a man who was... invisible, but free. I mean, I 'knew' a man.

Which did you choose?

[ifightfor]

Yes.

[Or maybe Rinzler doesn't even get the question.]

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

Then what is the point?

[Private]

[failedcreator.livejournal.com]

I have sufficient points?

Re: [Private]

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

By my count, yes.

Wardens-in-the-good-books filter? is she on this? :c

[strangehistorian]

A god can be a physical person, but usually is not or chooses not to be. Gods are... above mortals because they are immensely powerful in supernatural ways. They are also immortal, always, and the subject of worship - a godlike being that is immortal but not worshiped is only a demigod.

As for the people who believe in one god versus many, it is simply who they choose to worship, and their reasons for doing that are all their own. And the afterlife is generally just part of a belief system that forms, which may be based on fact or simply superstition.

Re: Wardens-in-the-good-books filter? yeeeaaaah, she is.

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

So, there's no right answer, it's just what people think?

[Private]

[toldastory]

It's the test for different sorts of colour blindness.

Re: [Private]

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

I see. And is it common knowledge, or the sort of thing most people in your world know about?

Kitchens

[yourunichase]

How much, what kind?

Re: Kitchens

[needshumility.livejournal.com]

Just a piece of meat. Anything - a pork chop, a steak, a piece of chicken.